We should be ashamed on the gap between the rich and the poor!!

Wiseman Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 07:08:44 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

I was happy when we came to power, hoping for at least a centre-left path.  We have had some good things from the Government eg minimum wage (not enough), paternity pay, maternity leave, no of staff for union recognition etc, but how can you judge us as a social democratic/socialist party?  I feel the real problem is the gap between the rich and the poor which is greater than it has ever been.  We may be helping poorer families more, but they are still struggling, with energy and food prices.  I don't want to be too critical, but it is something that we need look at, and if figures are anything to go by, we should be ashamed.


Wiseman






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We should be ashamed on the gap between the rich and the poor!! | 11 comments (11 topical)

Depends (#1)

by ComradeNorton on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 07:25:05 PM GMT

The issue is the number of people lacking basic numeracy and literacy and what we are prepared to do about it.

We should not be in a society where so many people cannot add up or read.  They simply cannot access well paid work with such low skills and no end of tax credits, higher benefits or reorganisation of the means of production will make the slightest jot of difference until we face up to this key fact.

In fairness to Gordon, I think that he sees education as the main policy of the government, but if that is the case then lets say so and drop defence spending to compensate for it.

Only education allows people to escape the poverty trap, everything else just sustains them within in.


ashamed of PPCs who tell Tory lies (#2)

by lulu on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 08:12:13 PM GMT

For a Labour PPC you don't half talk some rubbish. According to ONS:

The extent of inequality in the income distribution has changed considerably over the last three decades. However, between 1994/95 and 2002/03 the income distribution was broadly stable. Disposable income (adjusted for inflation) grew by over a fifth for both those on incomes at the top of the distribution (90th percentile) and those at the lower end (10th percentile).

See here


Re: ashamed of PPCs who tell Tory lies (#5)

by aneurin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 08:03:46 AM GMT

Far be it from me to actually defend Mr Wiseman, but if the real incomes of both the top and bottom percentiles have increased by twenty per cent in real terms, then the absolute gap between them has also increased by twenty per cent. Therefore Wiseman's statement that the "gap between the rich and the poor ... is greater than it has ever been" is perfectly consistent with the evidence cited.


[ Parent ]

Re: ashamed of PPCs who tell Tory lies (#8)

by Wiseman on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:18:59 PM GMT

it is the stats, look at the UN and IMF figures

Wiseman


[ Parent ]

Re: ashamed of PPCs who tell Tory lies (#9)

by andre on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 06:38:33 PM GMT

"For a Labour PPC you don't half talk some rubbish." 

Agree.  Simplistic nonsense.  Of course there is a great deal more to do to eradicate social inequality and to facilitate a fairer distribution of wealth, but I have a feeling Wiseman is hardly the best person to lead a responsible intellectual discussion on how this is to be achieved. 

"Ashamed" is a strong word; I do not feel ashamed at Labour's record...merely frustrated that progress has been more gradual than I would like.


[ Parent ]

Re: ashamed of PPCs who tell Tory lies (#10)

by Wiseman on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 07:00:27 PM GMT

This ain't a tory slare, I say it as a concerned member of the party

John


[ Parent ]

Re: ashamed of PPCs who tell Tory lies (#11)

by Wiseman on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 07:01:58 PM GMT

How about now?

John


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Re: We should be ashamed on the gap between (#3)

by Beyond New Labour on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 08:52:19 PM GMT

No we shouldn't.

We put reducing poverty at the heart of the Government agenda and have had some success. Pensioner Poverty and child poverty is much less than it use to be.

We were very ambitious, as we should have been, but no other Government would have done as much as we have done, the tories certainly never have or never will.

We may never erradicate poverty, but we are the ones that tried and forced the policy focus onto the issue and pushed it to the mainstream.

With the credit crunch and rising fuel and food prices, we will have to refocus and try harder, but at least we are the ones that will try!


Re: We should be ashamed on the gap between (#7)

by CitizenAndreas on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:04:18 AM GMT

Oh yes we should, we endlessly said how relaxed we were about people becoming mega rich without thought to whether this this would have any adverse effect on the economy or whether these people were becoming rich at everyones expense.

For example, hedge funds have made a fortune speculating on the price of oil and driving it up. The effect of this has been that a fraction of the petrol we buy goes on what is essentially a "Hedge Fund Tax". While it isn't as much as the tax taken by the government, the government taxes do at least go on things such as schools and hospitals.

There is plenty to be proud of in our record, but we missed the opportunity to do so much more.



[ Parent ]

Re: We should be ashamed of the gap (#4)

by DevonChap on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 09:23:30 PM GMT

I think what is damning is the rise of the plutocrat class under New Labour. The richest 1% has increased the amount of wealth they own proportionately so that inequality between the top and bottom in society is more than it has ever been. Like America at the end of the 19th century these ultra rich live totally separate lives, though at least the Carnegies and the like left their money to charity, which the UK wealthy don't seem to want to do.
I'm no socialist but this huge inequality has increased unhappiness across most social classes. Tax has risen on the middle classes but because the wealth of the top richest has grow so dramatically they pay less proportionately (Hedge fund managers who pay less tax than their cleaning ladies and the government seem happy about it). And under a Labour government! For shame.
The US cartels and trusts were busted by Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican President. It will be the Tories who do something about this while Tony Blair retires to an oligarch’s mega yacht.


Re: We should be ashamed of the gap (#6)

by CitizenAndreas on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:49:11 AM GMT

I agree completely.


[ Parent ]

We should be ashamed on the gap between the rich and the poor!! | 11 comments (11 topical)